Aircraft Limitations

[=CfC=BlueDog]

With complex engine management and engine temp effects as options in COD, it's probably a good idea to have a knowledge of the various aircraft engine and airframe limits.

I've gotten info for the Hurry MkII and Spit MkII and put them in a folder in Dropbox:  Aircraft Limitations.

I don't know how relevant they are to the sim; but if the sim is of the fidelity the developers are suggesting, then the info is probably usable.

The info has come from the internet, so there's no guarantee of it's correctness.   If anyone has better info, please amend what I've written.

Also, if anyone has info to add re other aircraft, please add it to the document.

[=CfC=BlueDog]

Engine temp effects are brilliant!   For the Hurry and the Spit if you follow the limitations I've published you will get an engine that keeps going, with no little red failure notices in the 'chat' window.

Some rules of thumb if using temp effects:

1.   You need to crack the throttle a bit to get the engine to start.

2.   You will need to warm the engine before powering up for take-off.   For both aircraft you need a water temp of +60deg.  The engine will not respond unless you do so (it'll just power down).

3.  Keep the water temp in flight below 120 deg (the book says 125 deg is the limit) by judicious use of radiator.

I haven't fully tested a whole range of RPM/boost so rule 3 might not be correct across the board.   Any further info appreciated.

For Farber if you are reading this:   do you (or your squad members) have engine and airframe limits for the German aircraft?   If so can you forward them pls.   Of course you can have the Hurry & Spit info if you want it - saves ratting through books/google.

Cheers,  BD

[=CfC=Fitz]

Bluey,

I have the pilots notes for the hurri (all marks) and 109. I'll have a trawl and post the important bits when I get a mo. I have some spit ones as well but they're mk IX onwards so no good for CoD.

Pip pip,

Fitz

[=CfC=BlueDog]

Good work, Fitz.

I've upgraded the info in the dropbox with Spit Mk I info.

[Badgerton Smedly]

Tally Ho Gents!

Thanks BDawg - I managed to get the Sptifire and Hurricane started and off the ground yesterday after much stalling and oil soaked screens.  I was testing the Spiftire out on the Manston attack quick mission to and I must say that it got a bit tiresome being repeatedly straffed by those blasted 110 chappies! Farber, I hold you and your chaps totally responsible! 

What did surprise me is that I had to start both AC with the mixture on weak, in fact the Hurricane mixture lever is slaved to the throttle, so you have to. I figured out the warming up as I went a long. I've still got to suss out the mixture functionality to get the most power out of the engine at the different stages of flight, altitude etc. I've got the radiators on pretty much auto too, which isn't the best format.

Still a while till I try it all out on line.  Once we have the performance patches sorted out and the whole platform is a little more stable I'll put together some missions as the build format looks different and a tad interesting.

Onwards and upwards! 

Badger

[=CfC=BlueDog]

Much to learn.   I didn't know Spit & Hurry were set up with auto rad.   I guess "R" is the default.

Makes you wonder how often the engine temp effects option will be used by players.   I suspect the average Joe (or Josephine) will find it too noisome; or won't be interested or patient enough to indulge and as a result most online servers will end up with eng temp effects off.   Pity really if it ends up that way.

One of the big problems is lack of information.   One really needs to have brief pilot's notes for each aircraft flown to make the most of it.   That's why I started this thread.

What it might do is to encourage players to specialise on one or two aircraft rather than jump across the whole spectrum of available rides.   Sort of what it was really like.

Rambling thoughts.

[5./JG27Farber]

Ive got a manual which I can send you or you can wait for our translation...

[=CfC=BlueDog]

Danke, Farber.   I've downloaded a 109E manual aber mein Deutsch ist nicht gut (as you can clearly see).   A translation of the relevant engine and airframe limits would be most appreciated.

[=CfC=BlueDog]

This is brilliant.

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3269457/2GvSAP_Flea_s_Data_Sheets_for_.html#Post3269457

Check out Einstein's post and then have a look at Fearless Frog's PDF version

[Badgerton Smedly]

What did surprise me is that I had to start both AC with the mixture on weak, in fact the Hurricane mixture lever is slaved to the throttle, so you have to. I figured out the warming up as I went a long. I've still got to suss out the mixture functionality to get the most power out of the engine at the different stages of flight, altitude etc. I've got the radiators on pretty much auto too, which isn't the best format.

Please ignore the above - I must be on drugs!!  The old mixture usage from the Hurri to the Spit is perplexing my small badger-like brain at the moment, which is leading me to get a tad confused!! Stupid Badger!!

The Hurricane mixture is Rich when the lever is back, but the Spitfire is forwards....  I'll set up a mixture thread to cover some additional ramblings on the matter.  I'm finding that reading the material supplied is rather useful too.... 

Badger

[5./JG27Farber]

Just a snippit until Homuth can be found.

Table IV a.

Maximum Speed volocities:

for flaps operation                                                    250Km/h
for (full extension of flaps?)                                        250 Km/h
for lowering landing gear                                            350 km/h
(during the on going outward processes?) landing?    220km/h
in nosedive                                                                750 km/h


Table IV d.
increased short-term output (hell for leather)      2468U/min    1,45Ata
Short-term output (in a hurry)                              2368U/min    1,35Ata
Continuios output (cruise)                                   2326U/min    1,30Ata


N.B.  These values are for a DB601.

EDIT1: Notice the U/min follows the Ata if you ignore the first number?  Look at hell for leather - 46U/min and ,45Ata...  So would one be correct in assuming Ata should always trial slightly behind revs?

[5./JG27Farber]

O and for take off - Easy peasy.

Fuel cock on
Prop pitch 100%
Toggle engine...


This can easily be remember by the phrase:

Bisch!
Bash!
Bosch!

[=CfC=BlueDog]

Thanks, Farber.   Those figures tally with Einstein's and Fearless Frog's.

BTW I've transferred the two to a page PDF details into one to a page in MS Word and expanded so I can read them easily.   Also put them through a laminator for durability.   Makes a good clear reference doc.

[=CfC=BlueDog]

Chaps, allow me to give a few pointers about complex engine management, particularly when temperature effects are included.   I do have a small caveat, however: I'm the first to admit I'm no expert on piston engine/propeller management; for being a simple soul, I'm more familiar with the single "go-lever" of jet engines.    If what I say is rubbish, then let me know and I will revise the details below.   Also, feel free to add information as you gain experience through flying COD.

Input Device/Keybindings:

Keybindings for the following functions are essential for your forays into COD.   Initially set them up for single engine aircraft and as you 'grow' then expand to cover multi engine and more complex operations.   If you have a HOTAS, set the more critical/frequently used functions on your throttle rather than your joystick - but of course that is your choice.   If you have a joystick only, put propeller pitch on a rotary switch as a priority, button/hatswitch if not: assign other functions to a dedicated keyboard section for use as a single keystroke.
 
Propeller pitch
WEP
Boost cut-off
Open/close radiator
Open/close oil radiator
Magnetos #1 and #2
Decrease/increase mixture
Fuel cock #1 & #2
Supercharger previous/next
Slow running cutoff

GENERAL:

For engine start put prop to full increase (fine), mixture rich, radiator open.   Fuel cock ON, Magnetos both ON (note, BF109 mags may not respond to keystroke - use mouse to engage if does not).   Crack throttle about 1/8 travel.   Press starter keystroke.
Warm up engine before take-off.   Wait for 60 deg C for Spits and Hurries.   BF109 may run from about 40 deg C.
Ensure radiator is fully open before rolling.   Use full throttle, prop pitch fine.

FOR ALL AIRCRAFT:  monitor the engine boost, prop rpm and temperature limits shown in the previous post.   Sequence of throttle/prop use:   for an increase of power, prop first then throttle; for a reduction, throttle back, then prop (in game, this is a nicety....IRL that's the way it's done).

Notes:

1.   For the British aircraft the engine will become starved of fuel if the aircraft is flown at less than 1.0 g.

2.   Contrary to it's name, Boost Cut-Off on British aircraft doesn't deactivate the boost.   It removes a mechanical restrictor and allows you to take the throttle to a higher boost setting.   Next time you get in the cockpit watch the boost cut-off lever (Spit) and push-pull lever (Hurry) and see how it moves.   Once activated you can't move the lever back (I don't think).

3.   On the Hurry Rotol there is a mechanical interconnect between the throttle and mixture lever.   Mixture cannot be set to 100% until throttle lever is moved close to full power.

4.   At the moment, prop control keyboard setting for the BF109 and BF 110 has been changed and now works in reverse.   This can be expected to be rectified in future fixes.
       


SPITFIRE MKI and HURRICANE DH 5-20

Propeller:   The Spitfire MkI and Hurricane DH 5-20 have a fine and a coarse setting.   You will see that if you reduce prop pitch slowly it will suddenly go from fine to coarse.   Generally speaking the prop will not exceed 3000 rpm in full fine in a climb until about 8000 ft at climb speed (160 - 180 mph), but doesn't exceed the limiting speed very quickly.     Once you start to exceed that limit, take the prop to coarse. Use the coarse setting for transit to conserve fuel if required.   For combat/maximum power: full throttle, plus boost cut-off off with prop at full fine   RPM will increase rapidly in a dive so monitor it closely to ensure it doesn't exceed 3600 RPM.   Also, if engine cuts out from using less than 1.0 g, RPM may increase rapidly to the limit as the engine recovers.   Note that altitude, airspeed and throttle setting will affect prop RPM:  increases as altitude and/or airspeed increases and if you back off the throttle, RPM will decrease.

Engine :   Water temp will increase very rapidly if you close the radiator.   So keep it full open unless you need that little bit extra speed.   Close it cautiously by increments and continually monitor temps.   Damage will occur almost as soon as the limit of 120 deg C is reached.   So do not exceed 115 deg and open rad fully if approaching the limit.   There is no control for oil temp - it regulates pretty well within limits - the oil cooler is incorporated in the rad arrangement.   If oil temp reaches limit, reduce throttle or increase speed.



SPITFIRE MK IIA and HURRICANE (ROTOL)

Propeller:   Both aircraft are equipped with a variable pitch propeller so the propeller will maintain selected RPM unless throttle is reduced to below 50%.   For combat/maximum power: full throttle, plus boost cut-off off with prop at full fine   RPM may increase rapidly in a dive so monitor it closely to ensure it doesn't exceed 3600 RPM.   Also, if engine cuts out from using less than 1.0 g, RPM may increase rapidly to the limit as the engine recovers.

Engine :   Water temp will increase very rapidly if you close the radiator.   So keep it full open unless you need that little bit extra speed.   Close it cautiously by increments and continually monitor temps.   Damage will occur almost as soon as the limit of 120 deg C is reached.   So do not exceed 115 deg and open rad fully if approaching the limit.   There is no control for oil temp - it regulates pretty well within limits - the oil cooler is incorporated in the rad arrangement.   If oil temp reaches limit, reduce throttle or increase speed.



BF109 E3 and E3B

Propeller:   The aircraft is equipped with a variable propeller controlled by the pilot.  However, unlike the Spit Mk IIA it will not hold its RPM constant, but prop RPM will change with only small movements of the throttle and will change markedly with airspeed and altitude.   You will need to move the prop control constantly to maintain your desired RPM.   The best approach to engine/propeller handling for combat in this aircraft is to select WEP, set full throttle (do not exceed 1.45 ATA) and just use the prop control as the primary means of controlling thrust.   The best RPM is 2200 to 2300 for maximum thrust.

Engine:   There is the added complication of an oil cooler for the BF109 models.   Best set full open for take-off and normal flight.  However, be aware there is a minimum in flight oil temperature limit of 40 Deg C for the engine.   You will need to monitor oil temp during flight to keep it within limits (40 - 95 deg C).   The water temp appears to be automatically controlled as the setting will reset to about half travel even if you try to select full open.   (anyone have any further info on this?)


LOTS OF LUCK
   

[=CfC= Silverback]

My head hurts